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How to Use Psychology and Communication Through your Website

In Conversation with Carol Verity Mann

In this episode of Ecoffee with Experts, Matt Fraser interviewed Carol Verity Mann, co-owner of the Web design and SEO agency We Get Digital. Carol reveals the secret to a great website and shows how using psychology and communication online is crucial to its success. Watch now for some profound insights.

The key to having a successful website is implementing emotional communication both visually and verbally.

Carol Verity Mann
Co-owner of the Web design and SEO agency We Get Digital
Everyone, welcome to this episode of Ecoffee with Experts. I'm your host, Matt Fraser. On today's show, I have Carol Verity Mann with me. Carol is the co-owner of We Get Digital, a Web design and SEO agency headquartered in Letchworth Garden City in the United Kingdom. She's also the author of Smart Website Planning and How to Think Like a Search Engine. Carol has over 35 years of experience in sales and marketing and was the winner of the high-profile Entrepreneur of the Year award. She excels at helping entrepreneurs and small business owners build beautiful websites that get found on Google and is an experienced CEO. When not building beautiful websites for our clients; Carol enjoys spending time with her family and traveling with her husband. Carol, thank you so much. A pleasure to have you on the show.

Thank you, Matt. Thank you.

Right on. So, I understand you were originally working for a company doing sales and marketing in the luxury and overseas property industry. You talk a little bit about that.

Oh, gosh, yeah. That started back in 1983. I just came back to the UK. I was living in Spain. I grew up between London and Spain, so I’m completely bilingual. I can speak Spanish and English. Came back to England when I saw an ad in the paper one day that said Overseas Property Company seeks a young dynamic person to join them, knowledge of the Costa del Sol preferable, not essential and I just joined. I joined the company and started working, selling property in Spain, and very quickly realized that we were really busy in the eighties. It was just March. And my cousin was working with computers and stuff. So, I went to my boss and I said, look, I think it would be really good if we put everything that we’re doing now and We could put it on one of those computer things and we could become more efficient. He said to me, okay, that’s a good idea. Why don’t you do it?

You had the idea, so he gave you the responsibility.

So, I got a copy. I’m not big on coding but I was planning and mapping it out and it was right back. We didn’t have the internet, but we did have computers so we built a sort of CRM system. So that was my internet.

Oh, cool. Right on. And what motivated you or inspired you to start your own marketing agency or Web design agency? SEO agency.

Oh, right. Yeah, back in 1998, fast forward from the Spanish property and property and then having kids. I got married, and had children, as you do. And, I had otherwise always been good at arts and I always wanted to sort of do some kind of degree in something I found this degree that was about visual communication and I like the term commercial artist rather than graphic design because commercial art is actually quite a skill. To design things for commercial purposes and visual communication is literally that, it’s how to communicate visually. The moment we see something because human beings interpret an image 60,000 times faster than the written word.

Wow. That's amazing.

Apparently, this is a stat. So, fast forward then to sorts of websites and we touched upon it. I went and did the degree and I love it. When you love something and you really want to do something, I think you do it regardless of babies, children, whatever. So, I did that, then came 2002, and I got called in by a very good friend of mine who had bought the domain name propertiesabroad.com.

Oh, wow. Propertiesabroad.com, that's smart.

Well, kind of but this led me to how I sort of got to where I am today of it. He said, Carol, you’re the only person I know whose sort of quite technical and you’re quite visual and you’re doing your degree. Would you come and join me to start this company unless it’s going to be online, we’re going to build a website. But, before we build the website let’s plan it and we spent three months meeting up, planning, and writing down what we wanted, how we wanted it to work, what we wanted to do, and what was more important. We used to mark everything that we wanted out of 10. So, that’s a 9 out of 10 or if it’s a 2 out of 10, 9 out of 10 would go into phase one, 2 out of 10 might go into phase two, three, or four. So, we did that. Got somebody to build the website bespoke because in those days we didn’t have WordPress or anything like that. And built propertiesabroad.com and it lasted for a long time the reason why it lasted for a long time was that we planned it properly.

Okay. Yeah.

Do you know what I mean?

Yeah. I totally know what you mean, that's one of my number one frustrations that I had working with people to design websites for them is they didn't want to put enough time into planning exercise and I went to the hairstylist then I gave her money back because she had no logo, she had no branding, she didn't want to tell me her color, she didn't want any content, any pictures of her salon, she didn't have any content, she wasn't willing to spend the time with me, she thought I was just going to make it all up and just do it. She didn't want to contribute anything, so it's crazy. Would you say that building a website is equivalent to like almost building a house?

Oh, funny look that’s the guide.

That Smart Start guide to website planning.

And what we are talking about is the website with cranes.

Yeah, exactly.

Building the website absolutely is 100% because if you build a house and you don’t tell the architect and you suddenly halfway through say, I don’t want the bathroom there, I want it over there.

It's a huge change.

The planning thing then came into play because I was in the property industry then in 2000, I did another thing that was very technical, which I did with a property company, and we planned and built. It was like a dating agency between agents and developers around the world.

Okay.

So, a developer will come up with a development and we would sort of like feed his information into the system and it would then spit out all the agents that would match his particular kind of property that would potentially represent him and sell his property for him. So that was neat. But then in 2008, we hit a big recession.

Oh, the Great Recession.

The company went from 60 down to 6 overnight.

Oh, wow.

At that time, it was starting to kick off. It was 2008-2009, and your Facebook, your Twitter are coming into play. And again, people say I’ve got a website, but it doesn’t work at all, it doesn’t work very well. So, do we say, did you plan it? And they went, well, no. My next-door neighbors built it. I said, well that’s why it doesn’t work and so I thought of starting a company called Smart Website Planning.

Yeah.

Thinking that because at that time you had, Dreamweaver.

Oh yeah, I still have a copy of it.

So, Dreamweaver, PHP, code, and all of that

HTML and CSS.

I tried building websites in that, but I thought I’d rather stick pins in my eyes. Then along came WordPress.

WordPress is amazing.

Then with WordPress, a designer could actually code in a way. I mean, I can understand CSS, and I can write a bit of CSS. I can change this and that, PHP, I can procure it, I want to write it. So, obviously having a degree in visual communications, and written website planning, one thing led to another and We Get Digital, It started as a Twitter handle and all my friends who were sort of in the industry go, “Oh, that’s a really good thing” so I found out that we could get a domain name, and with my husband and everything, we started. And ultimately, we got digital and about the SEO I was going to say. With the propertiesabroad.com, as you said that’s a great name but back in that time, there was Yahoo! which bought out a little tool called Overture.

Yes, I remember.

Before google did not exist, there was this little overture that you could put in a keyword and it would tell you how many people were searching for that keyword and give you suggestions. It was brilliant. Anyway, so I remember thinking, that’s great and I fit that in properties abroad.com, And then I thought, well, the other one is properties overseas.

Oh, yeah.

And I found out to my horror, that four times more people were searching for property overseas than they were property abroad.

Okay, so did you make a page?

I bought another domain name for prime property overseas, which we ultimately used for something else. That was like when I used to give talks and stuff on websites and planning and SEO and I used to say, do your keyword research? because if you don’t, you might as well just not go online and shut down your business and go and sit on a desert island. You have to know your keywords.

So you would say that one of the first fundamental things to do before you even start designing a website is keyword research.

Before you hire a name for your business.

Or you can get a name for your business because that could really impact how much traffic you could get.

It’s one of the things it’s not the main thing. If you’ve sort of been a local brand or something for a long time and you’ve got your name and everybody knows you for that name.

Yeah. Like if you're Coke or if you're Pepsi or any big brand. If you have brand recognition already.

Yeah, or It’s your business and it’s your name.

Do you think that's a good strategy to brand yourself as your name?

If you want to? I just built a website for a lady. She does coach and she just wanted to get known for her. She doesn’t involve the masses, she doesn’t want to build a brand, and she doesn’t want to build a business.

Or the company. Yeah.

Or anything. She just wanted a website that was her. So, there are other ways that you can get traffic without having your industry in your domain name.

Yeah, Absolutely

It helps, but it’s not critical.

No. I think people should have their own personal brand and if you're just starting out, have your own personal brand and then have it evolve into a company if you want.

Oh, definitely.

First and foremost, establish yourself as an expert first with your own domain.

I’ve got carolverity.com, we’ve got digital.co.uk and .com because we got the .com after the.co.uk. But I’ve got carolverity.com.

Yeah.

Because that’s my brand, that’s me. I suggest that if people can then build the two if you’ve got the business, but also if it’s you fronting that and if you’re the voice of your business then build both, a brand for you and a brand for the business as well.

Absolutely.

That’s good too.

So, what's the next step like this smart website planning guide? Is it a guide or a book, would you say a workbook and how many years did it take you to put that all together?

It took a few months, but it was put together in 2009. I keep updating. This one is like planning.

Your years of experience in that. That's what I'm trying to get at and put together in an hour if there are years of experience in that document.

Yeah. But it’s funny, though, because I revisited and this is what we’re talking about now. It’s 13 years or something like that. When I visited and read a lot of it, a lot of it is still significant because as I’ve always said to people, I said online is more about psychology than technology.

It's so true and yet so many people think the opposite.

Nothing to do with technology.

No. If you don't have good psychology on your website in the form of cooperating to communicate your message, you don't know who your audience is, who you're trying to target, and whether you have the right message to market fit. It doesn't matter if you're using WordPress, Joomla, or the best CMS in the world, that's not going to matter.

Absolutely. So, I think that’s where we are a little bit different as a company, as well because we’ve got the psychology, we’ve got the technology. The visual communications degree that I did was mainly about the psychological impact of what people see. You know, the faster they see that you’re the right fit for what you do. For example, you’re not going to make a site that is for a removal company or a man with a van or something that looks like Harrods or Fortnum Mason or a really posh shop. You just wouldn’t do that business. People would land there. And I think blimey, that’s probably really expensive. So, that scarper before they’ve even, sort of gone past the first hurdle. So what you want to do as a company when you’re building over, when you’ve got a website, you want people to like land there and think, “Oh my God, this is me, this is for me. These people can cater to what I’m looking for”.

Yeah, absolutely. What are some of the ways that people can go about doing that?

Call me now.

Well, hopefully, they will after be seeing it. What's your process for helping people discover what those things are?

We sit and I can honestly say the first thing that people do is just is that it’s like almost a business consultancy and sometimes people have got it. And I sit down and say, have you written in the brief and nine times, though, actually 99 times out of 100, it’s no. Then, I say, well, how do you know what you want? They say, well, it’s in my head. I sit there and then I try and hold it out. One of the best ways to do it now, which was harder 10-15 years ago, is like, can you please send me some links to three or four websites that you love and would like if your website looked like that, you’d be like, God, I’m happy. That’s the first port of call because I would say, my friend, this website or that website, and then you kind of start chatting, you build a picture, you target audience, all the sort of normal work. Well, for me, I think of it as normal questions that I’d ask, where do you want your business to be? For example, let’s take two beauticians. One beautician might want to grow her beauty brand into a big brand and have beauty salons all over the country and the other one might say, no, I don’t want to do that. I just want to be local; I just want to be found locally, I just want a nice little brand that’s just sort of very friendly and so the same industry can have two completely different visions for themselves.

Yeah. Different goals.

So, take notes of that, and then we send out a proposal, they give heads up if they like and they think that we might be able to interpret well what they’re looking for. We ask whether you have got a logo or not. If they haven’t got a brand, it’s not something that we do as a separate thing. We don’t say, we do logos but if somebody wants one…

You connect them with, someone you know who you trust.

No, we can do it. I can do it because my degree taught me how to do that. That was one, of course. But I don’t think it’s not a product.

That you market heavily.

Exactly.

In other words, what you're saying to me is you don't brand yourself as a logo designer.

No, not only do I but if somebody is starting a business and they’re looking for a website because they just started a business and they haven’t got a logo or they don’t like the logo that they’ve got or they’re not happy with it. Then I just always say, well, we’ll just do something or other. We can do it.

I've worked with a few businesses, not hundreds, but a few in regards to creating a logo, and I kind of find it odd that some of them, like one guy, has his ex-wife, well then his wife created a logo. She had no graphic design experience and you could tell by looking at the logo. Another lady and I'm almost positive she had a piece of clip art off the Internet and open up Microsoft Word and typed in the name of her business and put it together and took a screenshot, that was your logo. So, you talked about how important it is that we judge people and we do. We judge well, I judge businesses if I show up on their website and it looks like crap from an aesthetic point of view. And as you said, if the visual communication is communicating to me, that you're too cheap or incompetent to have something that's quality. I'm not interested. Do you think other people are like that, or is it just me?

No, everybody is like that. Honestly, you as a business have got about 3 seconds with the website to make somebody stay there and go further.

Do you think there are some industries where it doesn't matter? Like, for instance, plumbers, you think people just don't care about plumbers whether they have a good website or just.

No, I think it does matter. I think it matters in every single industry in this day and age. Plumbers and tradesmen don’t tend to want to think about it because they get maybe a lot of referrals and they do a lot of business locally and this and that. They may not have a website until business dries up.

Yes, word of mouth works for them.

We’ve got a couple of electricians and we’ve got a bricklayer at the moment for whom we are about to build a website. People usually go like, I’ve done lots of business and it’s been really good and then all of a sudden, it’s like, it’s not very good anymore so I think I need a website and then they want something that’s good. But if they want to put their prices up or if they want to be a specialist in a certain area, that’s another question. Actually, at the very beginning of a website build and sort of when we do the consultancy we ask, do you specialize in anything? Have you got a niche?

Yeah. That's important, isn't it?

It’s really important and the number of times we’ve actually had to guide people and convince them to build something that is much more heavily focused on the niche rather than general really helps. A lot of people are very reticent, especially small businesses. I had a lady, who did physiotherapy for the elderly. That was mainly her target audience, older people. She did physiotherapy for the elderly to help them out.

That's a good market to have.

I told her we’re going to build this amazing website and it’s going to really focus on that. She said, I don’t want to do that because I do another physiotherapy, so I don’t want to focus on anything. Luckily, a friend of mine who’s a business consultant knew her as well, and she was going to her for some business consultancy and she said the same thing to her, you’ve got to focus. So, we did. Luckily, in the end, she agreed. And now she’s doing really well.

It makes so much sense. There is a difference between a spotlight and a laser.

I know. If you went to our website you probably think let a specialized but believe me, we’ve got a couple of websites, we’ve got digital, which is a general thing, but we specialize just in websites and in SEO. That’s a kind of specialization.

You specialize in those two things.

But we’ve got wellnesswebdesign.co.uk and believe me we get people who are in the wellness industry and they want somebody who understands their industry.

Yeah, exactly.

So, that helps. That really helps.

It does, doesn't it?

I mean, I realize that this thing we can sort of take in account, we could have accountancywebsites.co.uk, it doesn’t matter. But we’ve done so much in the wellness industry. We thought we could have a whole portfolio on this.

Would you say that focusing on that specific industry has helped your agency grow more? There are a lot of big agencies all over the place they're like here they're everywhere.

We’ve had a couple of inquiries today even, you know, somebody who was in the health space, she wanted an SEO, at the same time she wants a company who will understand her industry.

Yeah. I have a question for you, how do you avoid taking on a client without a conflict of interest? That's always been my concern. For instance, you take on one physiotherapist and another physiotherapist and they both want to rank for the same keyword. How would you handle that?

You just do it. Most physiotherapists are actually not the best example because most physiotherapists want to do local SEO rather than national. They would only want to rank for that keyword locally.

Okay. So, they're not in the same radius, then like the same 10-mile or 10-kilometer radius. Is there a certain radius?

No problem. Most people want to live within 10-20 miles of their locality. Because people will travel further for physiotherapy.

I’m also at the radius around their business to 10 kilometers. I'm not sure if it's miles or kilometers in the UK.

Miles.

Okay. 20-mile radius.

But most people want somebody local. We get a lot of business because people call us and say, I had somebody to do my SEO and they were over in Scotland or wherever it might be. Somebody who we could pop in and see and talk to. I don’t know, maybe they want to know where that person is and someone who’s just over the here but no.

There's a guy from Australia who wrote the web design business site kit for site point, sitepoint.com. And he wrote this manual for starting a Web design agency and now he had a successful Web design agency and that's why he wrote the manual. But anyway, he wasn't just someone off the street, but he said that most customers want to deal with someone within a 25 to 50-mile radius of where they are.

I mean, we’ve had clients who we’ve built sites for, and when we do work for but we’ve never even met.

I’m assuming since the pandemic; you probably have had a lot more meetings like this.

Yes, zoom and everything. I mean, I kicked off with my MSN back in 2000.

We're dating ourselves here, Carol.

Did you ever have an AOL buddy list?

I never had AOL, I never got into AOL. I don't know why. I had an MSN chat.

I will tell you about AOL. It was Mid-nineties. AOL, I think was the only one you get on at that time and it had this buddy list. I remember going to all my friends and family and telling them they got to go online.

That really was the beginning of social media.

And they were going, no, we’re not going to do that. I wrote a blog about that and the whole sort of sitting there all by myself with nobody on my buddy list because nobody loves me. That was all about sitting there by myself online. So, I’ve always said to people I don’t see technology, I don’t see screens, I just see people and that’s the psychological side of it.

There are some of the aspects like you said, we see the psychological side of it. Is it coming down to copywriting?

How to inspire people, how to draw people with words and I think as with the website, it’s about finding a balance and a fusion between visual and verbal. If you can get a verbal balance right then that just hits people between the eyes and good titles for your blogs are also important. Like a little booklet that I’ve written for Google, and it’s like, how to think like a search engine. And people go, I would like to think like a search engine. How do they think?

Bill Glazer said that. I'm not sure if you're familiar with him, but he was Dan Kennedy's business partner. And Dan Kennedy is a marketer that's impacted a lot of people like Perry Marshall around days, I could go on and on, but he said the number one skill that every entrepreneur and small business owner should learn is copywriting. He used to own a men's clothing store and he turned his clothing store from a failure into a very successful clothing store he wrote seven sales letters that generate $1,000,000 in revenue.

Wow.

So I guess my question is, would you agree with him that you should, at least as a business owner, have some fundamental understanding of copywriting so you either write yourself or be able to identify what a good copy looks like?

Yes, I definitely do. I’m not really into that but my husband is.

There you go. That's why you guys are partners.

I’m more visual and he’s more verbal. I think he wouldn’t agree with that a lot, for he is more verbal because the words that come out might not necessarily be that. But it’s definitely true, there’s a great book that was written by a massive New York advertising guy. It was written by Roy Garn.

Oh, wow. This is the first I'm hearing this. I'd love to hear more.

Roy Garn, he was responsible for I think, Kellogg’s ad.

Oh, how do you spell his last name?

G.A.R.N, Roy Garn, wrote a book called The Power of Emotional Appeal.

Power of emotional appeal?

The magic power of emotional appeal.

Magic power.

I think that’s it.

I'm on Amazon, right now.

I don’t even know if you can buy it, can you?

I am looking for it.

I’ve got a copy, but I think I’ve paid a fortune for it.

It's on Amazon where it's $127. I bet you it's out of print.

There’s one here. It was $46.

Yeah, it's on Amazon for 15 bucks. I don't think they're new.

The magic power of emotional appeal by Roy Garn. It goes into more fields of life, it’s not just business. It’s all about emotional appeal.

That's interesting. You know, I sold cars, as I told you, and people who see the podcast, they know that I did that. People buy for emotional reasons. I can't remember what they say, the point I'm trying to make is people buy because of emotion. They don't buy because of fuel or economy.

The price is about 5th on the list, Most of the time it’s the value. So, you seek value, and if people feel they’re getting value for something they will buy it.

Yeah. Here's where it is, they buy with emotions and justify with logic.

It’s true, we all do it.

People have to create a copy on their websites that communicates an emotional message and connects with people. That's what I'm hearing you say, is that the key to having a successful website is implementing emotional communication both visually and verbally in your website that resonates with your target audience to connect with them and ideally build rapport with them, even if you're not doing it in person like this in sales. But you have to think about how your website is being perceived in regards to selling them to even contact you.

You absolutely.

To connect and resonate with them.

And giving your business a personality.

Giving your business a personality. That's not easy to do. How long does it take you on average in helping a business like that lady who came along or the person who came along and worked with the physiotherapy, with the elderly, did you have to build a brand for her?

She didn’t like the brand. She had to change the logo a bit, and the colors. Tweaked a little bit and we tweaked the strapline a bit. And I mean, I heard one set of shots because I just don’t count it too much but a good website from start to finish with the conversations, the planning, the building, and the this and that should usually take between 60 to 80 hours.

Yeah. Absolutely.

60 to 80 hours of work.

Do you think artificial intelligence is going to be able to assist people to shorten the amount of time involved in order to create things like that?

I don’t know.

I don't know. Yeah, fair enough.

No, I don’t think so. I’d say no. I’d say you’d meet people, people meet people and people buy from people. I get annoyed even when an AI is like, you’re trying to get help from…

The chat pal.

Chat pal. We tried one on our site and I didn’t like it. But it has its own place.

Yeah. What do you see as some of the biggest mistakes that business owners are making in regard to their websites?

There planning.

There you go.

They put the cart before the horse. They don’t think about the content, they don’t know how to craft the content or they create content without thinking about the SEO or they create the content with SEO in mind and not thinking about people. I mean, Google has now just launched a whole new algorithm.

Yes, called the helpful content update.

Exactly. They want you to appeal to people and it’s all about the people. What I always say it applies, I said it today about 2 hours ago to somebody that all Google wants to do is to give us the best websites for our search. So as a business, your responsibility to Google is to make sure that your website is the best website for people.

The best-looking design, the best content, the best branding.

Yeah. I’ll tell you what, you said something there about the best-looking design. It needs to be the most appropriate design.

There you go. That is key. That was a nugget you just shared.

You must belong to the most modern websites list. But if your target audience isn’t a modern target audience then you need to be a little bit more classical and you need to make something that appeals to the people who you want to appeal to and that might not be the most modern, and to other people, It might not be the best. But it’s appropriate for you, your tone of voice, your business personality, and for what you want to achieve and what you want people to feel. What do you want people to feel when they land on your website?

What would you say are the elements of an appropriate website?

That depends.

If I was to say to you, I know I am putting you on the spot, but what are the principles of beautiful web design? I know the color theory is one. But, don't use more than 6 colors on your website if you're going to use 18,000 colors.

The simplest way to describe that is for instance you’re a client and I ask you, what’s your favorite color?

My favorite color is Blue.

Okay, you say blue. Your favorite color is blue and then I said to you what’s your client’s favorite color?

No idea.

Exactly, but how do I find out? Go ask them. But is just a hypothetical situation. So if you have favorite color happens to be yellow then guess what? What color website are you going to build? Blue one or a yellow one?

The yellow one with complementary colors.

Complementary colors with blue. So, you are happy with it too? So you go, oh my God, I love it. And your clients come along and they go, I love it too. That is sort of starting to become appropriate. So, then it’s got to be right for your target audience then, you know, visual pick, the pictures, how can we put those together? In a lot of the images, we can sort of giving them a tone. There was a great website I saw once and I became really obsessed with I became obsessed with that kind of treatment, which was black and white images with one thing picked out in color. And I managed to do it. I applied it to a lovely lady who was a psychotherapist, and we build a website and I managed to put that treatment was very appropriate for her site. So that visual treatment, which we paired with some very beautiful wording. We gave a very nice balance look for the services that she offered below and it was just lovely, the tone was right, it hit the right tone for her, for the target audience, and for the industry. She was a specialist in a loss. The psychotherapist who is specializing in loss and I think on things like that, we really dig deep. I would certainly say that if anybody came and sat with us because they wanted a website for their business, we do dig as deep as we can.

Absolutely. Because that's what creates the best product. I tip my hat to you for that because, you know, a lot of website agencies don't do that.

Well, I think there’s a lot out there, were marketing agencies, maybe pre-web marketing agencies or people who are trained in marketing and love marketing and they’re probably very good at marketing. But that doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re brilliant at planning and coming up with an appropriate website for that client. The psychological side, but then the visual communication is there. You must have heard of semiotics.

Yeah.

The study of signs and signifiers, what things mean, and what people respond to the emotional response to certain things and that’s what a big part of studying visual communications. I didn’t do it to build websites, I promise you, but it’s been very helpful, very critical.

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, sometimes I would poo-poo on my web design education. But in reality, we don't really realize how valuable the thing is that we're doing until we go later on to use it. This does come in handy in that regard.

But I love a lot of sitting down with clients and learning about where they want to go with their business, where they want to be and coming up with solutions.

Yeah, absolutely. Because at the end of the day, that's what we're doing. We're solving a problem and providing a solution for the particular client that wants to do the exact same thing.

Going back to the builder analogy, it’s like builders building the house, it’s like a lot of builders sit there going do that. No, that’s difficult. No, we can’t do that. When we moved here, we’ve had lots of building work done and stuff and we’ve got an amazing builder and he’s cool with the building solutions and he really, he always comes up with a solution for things. And we like to pride ourselves on coming up with solutions rather than problems. There are only solutions.

That is awesome. What a great way to end the interview. you can't top it off any better than that. You know, there are no problems. There are always solutions. And if you want a solution, how's whom you need to contact.

I might not be local to your audience

But we interview people from all over Australia, the UK, US, and Canada.

I’m only down on the computer. I’m just a person. Not a screen

How can our audience get in touch with you online if they choose to do so?

It’s www.wegetdigital.co.uk

And are you personally on LinkedIn or Twitter or anything like that?

Carol Verity on LinkedIn, I don’t do anything on Twitter. I used Twitter till its death. I think if I’ve got 23,000 tweets, they all happened before 2011.

Yeah, most of our audience is not Twitter users but anyway.

Shoot me an email at carolwegetdigital.co.uk

There you go. Right on. Well, I want to thank you so much for coming to the show. It's been an absolute blast talking to you. Been a total pleasure. Thank you very much.

Thank you.

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