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How To Use Your Brand Story To Drive Customer Engagement

An Interview with John Roy

Matt Fraser hosted John Roy, Director of Web Development and SEO at MedTech Momentum, a full-service MedTech marketing firm, for this episode of Ecoffee with Experts. John provides a rundown of the proper and improper ways to use tales to create a company’s brand and increase consumer engagement. Watch now to create a lasting impression on your clients.

As soon as you go to a website, you should be able to understand exactly what this company is offering. If you can’t convey this message in the first 5 seconds, you’re just losing business.

John Roy
Director of Web Development and SEO at MedTech Momentum
Hello everyone. Welcome to this episode of Ecoffee with Experts. I'm your host, Matt Fraser. And on today's show, we're going to be talking about how to use your brand story to drive customer engagement with none other than John Roy. John is the Director of Web Development and SEO at MedTech Momentum, a full-service MedTech marketing firm based in Altamonte Springs, Florida. He holds a degree in computer programing from Kaiser University and is a Microsoft-certified professional in requirements and defining solution architectures. Currently, John is enrolled in the Interaction Design Foundation for his studies in UX design, and he has been creating highly effective website solutions coupled with tangible results for small, medium, and large-sized businesses for the past 20 years, when not working on marketing campaigns for clients, John enjoys playing in pool tournaments, stocks, car racing and relaxing on the beach with his wife. John, thank you so much for being here. It's a pleasure to have you on the show.

It’s my honor, Matt. Thank you very much.

Yeah, right on. You've had an interesting journey so far, John. How would you describe the kind of person you were in high school?

Wow, high school. I’m going to even go back further. I’m going to start in elementary school. My teacher had current events board up and she did her best to update it. And at a very young age, my mother put a newspaper in front of me and I started to read it every morning. It was like a daily morning cereal and reading the newspaper. I started cutting out articles that I found interesting and I’d bring them in and the next thing I knew, the teacher was like, You are now in charge of the current events board. So it stemmed from the newspaper to school activities and intramural sports. I would actually go home watching intramural sports in elementary, write up a story and bring it in.

Oh, wow. That's neat.

I guess web design and things started early.

Were in your blood even back then. Not to date either of us, but before the Internet was even a thing.

The Internet. What?

Yeah, exactly.

There was no thought of it.

Yeah, exactly. So then as you grew up, did you continue to stay involved in those things in high school?

I stayed involved, yeah, in high school I did stay involved. The newspaper. I then found out that our school offered some vocational activities. One of them was photography and the other was electronics. I chose electronics. I think I have a left side and a right side brain that needs to be fed differently. The electronics and programming side and then I had the creative storytelling on the other side and it kind of fed me through and got me through high school.

Is that what impacted you to go into computer programming?

Yes, it did. Actually, let me step back. I was taking a class, a video production class, and I would get in front of the screen and there was another gentleman taking the class with me, he was a programmer, and one day by circumstance we were on a project together and he says, Hey, I’ve got to finish up this, this project for another class. So, mind showing me? And he goes, yeah, let me show you. And the next thing I know, he has me typing out programming. And he goes, I’m doing program code. And I was like, I’m changing majors. I was actually going for a communications degree and I switched over to programming. That’s how I found programming.

Oh, that's interesting. That's really neat. And so how did you go from computer programming to maybe if you could just share a little bit about, you know. How has that experience impacted you and John regarding the websites and marketing side of things? How is that journey?

That journey started in a programming class, the left side of the brain is getting fed. And of course, I’m a poor college student on student loans and I’m thinking, how the heck am I going to pay this bill off when I get out of school? So as I’m working in my class, HTML programming came up, JavaScript programming came up.

Okay.

The teachers showed us how to use it. And I was like, this is the beginning of the Internet here. And you know, there are websites out there. So in my head, there are two things a company is going to need, a database to keep all their information in, all the data they’re collecting in an informative way so they can make wise business decisions, as well they’re going to need a website to engage their end user. So, when the teacher turned to us and said, hey, go get an internship, that’s pretty much what I ventured out to do, was to find a company that needed a website and such.

Oh, okay. Well, that's awesome. I mean, obviously, colleges become more and more expensive, and figuring out a way to monetize the knowledge that you're learning and then be able to monetize it as fast as possible.

As fast as possible.

Yeah, exactly. That's a smart way to do it. So, you were working at score 87 Business Consulting Services. What was your experience like working there?

What a tremendous experience. If you don’t know what SCORE is, the acronym stands for Service Core of Retired Exact. I was the CEO. I was the CFO. I’m retired now. Some people know what retirement is. It’s a lot of doing nothing. Waking up, having coffee, and figuring out what you’re going to do. So a lot of these executives got together and wanted to help small businesses that maybe are not capitalized or have enough resources at their fingertips. So score we take them from business plan to actually launching.

Oh, wow.

Yeah. It’s an amazing organization. It’s free, if you’re a small business and you’re needing a lot of resources, the SCORE may be something you want to look at for help.

And it's still around to this day?

Yes. In every 50 states, they have SCORE organizations that will help the local businessperson have a chance to succeed. Because I mean, business is hard enough for a lot of companies, and school to me does not teach me how to be successful. They teach you fundamentals of that and such.

Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. The things I've learned about entrepreneurship from being a business owner or even the way the business is set up and accounting and this darn book I was just talking about earlier, it's about profits and I can't remember the name of the book is Profits First, a phenomenal book called Profits First that I think every business owner should read. And I wish someone had told me to read that, ten years ago when I first incorporated my company more than like ten years ago, you know, I would have set things up a lot differently. And, you know, I talked to one business owner and SEO guy and he had a business mentor who was in manufacturing. But yet taught him business and it's vastly impacted his business and his career and his ability to make money. And the correlation is, you know, he is very similar to the principles met between manufacturing chocolate and manufacturing a backlink and doing the things that we do. It's very similar in those principles, but you wouldn't know that unless you had a mentor. I'm tying that back to this score of 87 business consulting services in regards to the value that can bring to people in order to make or break and be successful or not. It's just unbelievable. What were some of the projects you worked on while you were there?

So, of course, being a web guy, they had me look over their website, which wasn’t the best presentation of them. We’re talking about the response. You know, now later is coming Mobile devices. Now, I can show a website or a mobile device. I can’t read my website on this mobile phone. So, you know one of my tasks things was to revamp their SCORE 87 websites. And then of course, as I said, they offered classes to the small business owners. So I was giving about a monthly webinar class, an actual class that people attended. I’d speak on website 101, SEO techniques, and such, explaining what a domain was.

Yeah, it's amazing.

Yeah. So a lot of great questions out of that from the audience. You could tell they were so thirsty for knowledge. You know, I’d remember it as a struggling business. I barely have enough resources to take my idea to fruition. And we talk about business plans and taxation and such. So its prestige was digital marketing, so I would speak to them on that.

Wow. It's just for people who are wondering if it's scores.org and scores 87.

Score 87 is the words of a local chapter.

That's the local chapter. How would you say that experiences impacted your career today?

Without a doubt the best decision I made because it became my test bed, it became my experience to talk to that client. Like I said earlier, the school doesn’t prepare you for that. So, now here I am, with real-life experience, real clients, and real struggles and my job was to guide them to the promised land, at least in the digital marketing area.

Absolutely. John, what would you say are your thoughts on using stories to build the brand of a business? The importance of it, I guess.

Storytelling has four superpowers. I mean, ripped the shirt off, CDS, emotional attention, belief, being memorable. I mean you’ve watched a movie that you love and you could tell the story from start to finish because the story was so engaging.

Star Wars, got to be one of the greatest stories ever told.

And that’s one of the best examples of storytelling, in my opinion.

So, how can businesses translate something like that? And what's the impact that you've seen in regards to that? Do you have any examples you can share of a business, and how can they do it? Like, what's the big idea? Probably some executives that they're going, what the hell are you talking about? Why will I use a story in my business, I just want to sell stuff.

You know, Matt. Let’s step back to the beginning of websites and the evolution of websites. It was like placing every piece of information we have about this company or a product and putting it on a web page. So, they were really big to me, like a user manual.

Yeah, absolutely.

It was not engaging. It was like paragraph after paragraph and you know how that goes after a while. So when you package your message within a story, research has found it makes it 22 times more memorable than just putting in facts, you know?

Wow.

Our brains since the Stone Age, we’re wired to survive and thrive. So, a story that was going to make you survive your challenge is memorable. Your brain is wanting that rather than attaching useless facts about a product that knows that you don’t see yourself with.

Yeah, maybe hearing the story about the guy who got eaten by the saber-tooth tiger and what not to do and how to avoid that.

And how to avoid the dinosaur eating you. Yes, and how to not freeze during the ice age. I mean, those would be the stories I would be engaging in the stone age. It’s even true today because I heard a quote a while back that said something about you can take the person out of the Stone Age, but you can’t take the Stone Age out of the person. Meaning the same, survive and thrive theory that I believe in.

Yeah, absolutely. So, we're talking about here stories and every good story has a hero and a villain, you know, Luke Skywalker and Darth Vader and Pumpatin and the Evil Emperor. And then there are the sidekicks, Han Solo and Chewie and the robots and whatever, you know, in regards to a story for a business, what role and part do they play with their customers or should they play?

That is a great question. Your website should be the Yoda or the Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Oh, I forgot about that.

The user is Skywalker. Luke Skywalker. And he has to defeat the Death Star and Yoda or Obi-Wan Kenobi to use the force. If you don’t use force, the universe is going to fall under the evil emperor, and everybody’s going to hate life.

Wow. So you position yourself as the guide, as the Yoda, and staying with this Star Wars theme and you're customer, is the Luke Skywalker looking for an adventure or looking to solve a problem?

He has a challenge. He needs to face that challenge. He needs to meet that guy, that Yoda, that Obi-Wan. He has to be given a roadmap to success. He is warned of what perils face if you don’t follow this cadence or flow. That’s when they’re going to be successful.

Absolutely. So, what are the ways some businesses can do that? If you can use that maybe an example in generic terms, not revealing any brand names or any of that, if you can. It's tying that together of how that can be done. I can give you a for instance if you want if it makes it easier. But we'll think, like just, for instance, the renovation company, let's just go there just because I know that it's a topic you know about. So obviously, they're going to be the Yoda. Feel free, by the way, if you have a different idea or solution or something that comes to the top of your mind about what we're talking about. Feel free to interject and change it. That's fine with me. I'm just trying to give our audience an idea of maybe a tie-down to relate to a certain story as we're talking about using stories. So anyway, we can start or we could go with the plumber. It doesn't matter to me.

How about this one, you guys work with medical companies. Talk to me about that then, and forget about the other things we just mentioned. Elaborate on that.

The MedTech community is actually a very good example. One of the downfalls to me of storytelling is putting in too much noise. Most medical technology companies are manned by very smart people. Their vocabulary would have you going on Amazon and buying a Saurus to figure out what exactly they’re saying to you. So what a company needs to do is simplify that story to bring it down.

Let’s go back to success. So, the first thing you need to do is develop a buyer persona.

Okay.

With that buyer persona, you’re getting a fictitious representation of your ideal customer. Who are you talking to? What’s their age? What are their internal challenges? Their external challenges? How are they going to consume your content and what part of the story is going to resonate with them to bring in that? So once you have your buyer persona made, you want to look at your brand messaging, and does that brand messaging convey what you’re putting out to them? Is that going to teach them to how to survive and thrive in the industry next, followed by your brand identity, which is your representation of your company, and your values? Next will fall into actually content marketing. So, it’s your website, it’s your social media. Are we all telling the same story or do we have consistency within that context of marketing and all the touchpoints that buyer persona is going to fit? If it’s B2B, LinkedIn is a very good example. You want to be pushing LinkedIn to reach that B2B customer, if it’s B2C, maybe you’re looking at Facebook, maybe you’re looking at Pinterest as another hub or another touchpoint for your end user with your storytelling. So, you know, any time I get asked, well, what’s the most successful campaign you can think of, Apple comes to mind right away to me. IBM at the time was pushing think, Apple came and they created that countercultural aura. You know you don’t have to be a slave to this, come to our side.

Yeah. So it's interesting. In developing the buyer persona, there are two things I want to talk about. In developing the buyer persona, you're really learning about your hero. Who the hero is, the challenge that hero has, challenge that hero was trying to solve in tying this to the story framework. So your persona really is the hero you're trying to develop, who is Luke Skywalker? What problem does he have? What limitations does he have? What is he trying to solve? And that's pretty critical, isn't it, Dan Kennedy taught me, people think that marketing is just the medium in the final stage, the medium, you know, just put an ad on Facebook and watch the customers come in or put an ad on Google ads and watch the customers coming in. But that's the last part of it.

I wish that was that easy.

Yeah, exactly. He talked about the medium, market, and message, and in order to know who your market is. Then you develop your message, then you choose the medium. It doesn't matter what medium it is, what you've got, your market target, market persona, figure it out. Then you can start to develop your message. So, you talked about that, and then in regards to developing your brand, I guess that's developing who you are as the guide, right?

Yes, sir.

And in the ways that you're the voice of your brand. Whether you're going to be Yoda or whether you're going to be Obi-Wan Kenobi or whether you're going to be, whatever his name was, the guy who got killed. But yeah, which guy you're going to be and what type of guy you're going to be, and how you want to position yourself. Who is the evil, in the story of a business building a brand? Who's the villain?

You know, every great story has a challenge. If it doesn’t have a challenge in it, the story is just going to be just a simple story that’s not going to be memorable. There needs to be a challenge within a story. So, some companies need to be open to being vulnerable. Startup companies can talk about their challenges. Again, their message is felt mostly branded by the end user, so they can see their struggles to come up with a solution. And now here I’m offering the solution to you to help guide you from where we once were to where we are now. So, again, the challenges and anything that makes me fail is the villain in this story, whether it’s a human being or some theory that’s evil.

Okay, it's interesting because I'm thinking about who could be the villain and in tying this back to just because I mean, I would love to hear some thoughts of yours about some of the ways you've done that with some of your clients. But I'm thinking the villains could be bad actors in your industry, like for a renovation company, do you really want to get ripped off by a crooked renovation company or less experienced people?

Guys who aren’t licensed. The guys that are all over business zero forums. People say, run from this company, there’s your villain. You know, we’re certified professionals and we’re here to help your house look better.

To give you the advice. Interesting. It could be the bad actors, the worst people in the industry. Because let's be frank. Whether you're a renovation company or whether you're a web designer or whether you're a dentist or a plastic surgeon or a lawyer. You have bad actors in every single one of those industries.

Great example.

Hey, I didn't realize lawyers are bad until I needed one, anyway. And I'm appreciating the good ones versus the poor ones until I need one. But anyway. The point I'm trying to make is that the villain could be the problem, it could be the challenge, it could be the challenge of finding the right solution and avoiding the people that will trip you up and cost you money. Would you agree? I don't mean to go on and on about it. I find it very interesting.

Yeah, exactly.

How can businesses get started? If a business came to you and said, hey, this sounds interesting. We'd like to get started. What would be your suggestions or tips or advice for them to start?

If a client comes to us, we walk them through what we call the empty seven frameworks. That is seven steps to get to the promised lands. I touched briefly on that in my earlier answers. Here let’s look at the good big components or the key components of a good story search.

Sure.

Why does your brand exist? What gap in the market are you trying to handle? What were the perceived early days? You know, whether you’re a big company or are still in a startup, think of some of the magical moments that helped build your company. Again, we want to emotionally tell a story or get emotional branding with the end user. What does your brand offer? What is different from other competitors, whether you are using high-quality material or you’re pledged to being more sustainable, especially in today’s world where we’re talking climate change and such? I mean, is your product going to be damaged? Say it. No, our values are unique from the competitors who are just mass producing these plastic bottles all over the place. Here we have a new water container for you that is sustainable and it’s not going to wind up in a landfill or in the ocean. The next component, of course, is to know your audience. In order to persuade people to choose your brand, you need to know what makes them tick. User research and data help to inform how to tell the story from the design of the product that you offer.

Yeah, you just touched on something. The importance of copywriting in the voice of the customer. In order to tell your story and communicate.

The problem you’re solving. You know, part of storytelling in a brand story is communicating the problem you’re solving from simpler things like getting a better medical implant that’s not going to impact or affect the doctor’s ability to see the spine tumor in somebody. Sometimes metal implants will cause interference in your body that masks what doctors are trying to see so and a company will come along and produce an implant that does not interfere with radio imaging.

What you just mentioned could be called a unique selling proposition, a USP. And so now right now you've got me thinking about how the value of a USP plays in developing part of your story and the foundation of your story. I mean, exactly what you just said is that solution is unique to the market that solves a problem that nobody else has. And telling your story around that's pretty phenomenal.

I most certainly agree with what you said.

Yeah, absolutely. That just got my brain going. Do you think all businesses need to tell stories in order to be successful?

Oh, if you are not using a story technique in today’s world, you’re missing the mark. You’re filling your end user with too much noise. Confusing web design. It goes through everything, social media feeds, what have you. If you’re not telling the story, be consistent along all your touchpoints.

All your channels. It even gives you the blueprint for your socials. Some people don't even know what to post on social media. They don't know what kind of content to create, they don't know what blog posts to publish. When you really take the time to figure this out, it really gives you a blueprint, right, to develop all of those things. A road map. There you go a road map.

When you get the Car, you don’t aimlessly drive around.

Yeah, absolutely. Do you have an example of a marketing campaign that you developed as a result of building a story brand for one of your clients, that you could share? Or do you have to keep all those things tight-lipped? If you want to plead the Fifth, that's fine.

I want to plead the fifth only because we do NDAs with our clients.

No, I do understand. Absolutely.

We could talk about the dangers of storytelling.

Sure.

At that point. So, overdoing your story a lot of times, again, we’re working with very highly intelligent clients. Simplify the message down and I think last time I checked surveys you are reading level on your website should be around the eighth-grade reading level.

Oh, wow.

At one point, it was at a sixth-grade level. But I think something happened to increase.

Something happened that the general population got more educated and intelligent.

You know what is funny, especially when we are trying to convey a message to the patient. The ultimate end user of a Medtech company’s product is of course a patient with whatever disability they have. So, when you put long medical terminology, you’re choosing your client. So we have to write to that patient. So, patients can understand, engage, and see themselves as, “oh, wow, I’m having the same problems and wow, they did this, and wow, they’re back to life”. A part of that is the complexity conundrum or what I like to call it is adding more stuff to this story to water down your story and that’s a part of the problem.

Do you need to trim the fat is what you're saying?

Trim the fat out of your story. If your story is five paragraphs long, you’re not conveying a message accurately. People will look at your website. As you probably know, they do a Z pattern on your website and ask you for something that fits in that story. They should be just reading big snippets and calls to action to solve their problems.

Do you think people should be able to in their businesses reduce their story to one sentence like an elevator pitch?

The Elevator pitch is probably the best example. It’s funny how we had a webinar one time and the speaker at the time as people step up and say what they do and they like, oh, I work for a big marketing firm and da da da da da da da da. And she got on and on about it. It was just one of the worst things I’ve heard. So they asked me to tell them what you I do. I changed my elevator speech to say, I’m the guy you call if you need to have a very responsive, engaging website and I can see the reaction on their face rather than say, Oh, I work for a Medtech company. I’ve been there for a year and I’ve built a website. No, it’s I’m the guy you call if you need a website. That is going to engage users and then they stop and they tilt their head and next thing you know, they’re either asking for your phone number or your business card.

Yeah, absolutely.

Sometimes, simplicity is the best.

So, that's one thing to work towards, is what I was trying to say. In some ways, your story could be reduced down to an elevator pitch and building upon that, as well as your USP. And then what about like do you want to reduce it to like a certain amount of steps that people should take in order to work with you? Like, you know, step one, two, three. Here's what you need to do to work with us in order to solve that challenge, that the hero, as the guide, is facing to bring people through the journey.

Yeah. Again, we’re going to reduce it for you. We’re your customer is the star, not your technology. We’re going to focus on the person that has that challenge that needs the guy who gives them a road map to call him to action and to avoid the failure of hiring the bad, the bad lawyer, the bad actor and be successful and live happily ever after.

Absolutely. Do you have any thoughts, stories, or examples you can share about companies that have failed to tell a good story?

Yeah, but they’re not around any longer.

Yeah. That's what I mean.

Yeah. Again, I hate to be repeating. All right I’m going to try to use a client. So, we have a client that is producing technology that could improve your ability to work out, increase your endurance, increase your performance and take you to the next level of fitness. When they came into our doors, we took a look at their content marketing, and their social media, and it all had this person working out, just people continuing to work out. But the item, the product, or services were never spoken about. Actually, you couldn’t even see the product on the first page of the website. Their opening line was something that someone in some corporate office thought was going to be awesome. But again, We had this kind of what we call the grunt test and it goes back to the Stone Age caveman kind of thing. You know, I was in the military and a grunt to us was somebody that we had enough to defend us. But maybe it wasn’t to be. So if we’re able to convey a message in the top fold of a website, like, again, as soon as you get to that website, you should be able to understand exactly what this company is offering and how to get that product portfolio.

Yeah.

If you’re not conveying that message in the first 5 seconds, somebody is going to think they’re in the wrong spot. And if you continue down and see people just working out and no sign of the product, you’re going to confuse your end user. Who doesn’t even know how they got here or why they’re here and they’re going to click on?

Yeah absolutely.

They were in the strategy zone where we were coming up with the headline that will engage that user and termed out early. We’ve taken the product into our photo studios, and video studios and made some really engaging content and we’re looking forward to launching that company shortly. Relaunching again.

I think a company that failed to understand this story and the customer journey and the story in the part they played. Like Blockbuster Video, they totally failed to understand What part they played in the story and they could have dominated the industry. They could have been Netflix if they'd been smart.

Oh, my God. As you said that I was thinking, yeah, Netflix in my head because we used to get them in email and everything.

Right. Yeah.

And then all of a sudden they were like, no, we’re just going to have a stream. Yeah, just pick a movie and watch it. All for a subscriber fee.

Yeah. Netflix rewrote the story and blockbuster could have but blockbuster didn't understand the story of their business and where they were at. And while we're there, let's talk about newspapers. I mean, newspapers had, or we want to talk about the Internet. Newspapers had the market cornered in regard to advertising. They forgot what part they played in the story. They thought that they were newspapers. You're not in the business of news, you're in the business of advertising. You always have been. The news wasn't the primary thing. Your primary business and story were producing stories in order to sell advertising and it may be they could have started eBay classifieds, They could have started Craigslist, and they could have been the hero or the guide in the story continued. They could have started digital marketing agents, they could have started. So, you know, it's interesting. It can be really detrimental. Like you said if people and businesses don't think about where they are in the story and them as the guide. Apple is a brilliant company that turned things around, in my opinion.

Oh, God, they were losing market share before.

Gosh, Steve Jobs came back from Pixar and just totally gutted the company. Well, I won't say they gutted it. But he cut back on all these confusing products and he really refocused on what the story was and who it was about. And I don't technically agree with the direction Tim Cook is taking the company today, but they're very profitable. So I hate to say, but sometimes I wonder if Steve would be rolling in his grave if he knew how many different lines of phones they have now and this and that thing. But who cares? The point I'm trying to make is that Apple has now pivoted and they've become an amazing storyteller. And it doesn't matter. They're working on a car. Aren't they working on a car, for Pete's sake? They're working on Apple TV.

But they evolved. In your example of the newspaper, the newspaper failed to evolve. The movie rental place, The Blockbuster, because they didn’t have it in changed to the need of that and you’re not solving my problem. You saw Netflix came along, Solving the problem of having to return videos and rewind stuff here. We’re going to mail you the DVD out.

Yeah. So, the whole thing is like the challenge and the mistake of avoiding and not knowing what your part is in the story. If you know your part and you knew the challenge and adapting because stories change and they can adapt. Especially with the fluidity of the Internet. I mean you pivot the business.

If you rest on your laurels of yesterday you’re doing your company a big disservice because things change constantly. If there’s anything that’s consistent, it’s changed. Your buyer persona story may change over the years and if you think of it like you’re saying, you’re going to be the blockbuster.

Yeah, and know who you are in the story and journey of you're a customer. Always understand that.

Understand that you’re no hero. Too many clients will come to you because and tell you how many awards we have? Helping somebody survive with how many awards you have.

What are some of the major things, the changes that you recommend people to pivot from making themselves out to be a hero to making themselves out to be the guy?

You know, Always a good measuring stick for your campaign is how much engagement. So, here we are, we’re getting good engagement. In case engagements drop off. Why? then go back to step one again and review the buyer persona. As challenges have changed. Is our product or service not addressing the challenge that they have now?

Yeah. Do you think that third-party endorsements or certifications as well as testimonials play a role in pivoting you as the guide versus making out to be the hero?

I actually taught college for a while and my students were talking years ago. It’s like, you’re never going to stop learning. Again, this is resting on realizing, “Oh, I got my degree. I got my certificate. I’m still taking classes today and I’ve been in the industry for over 20 years.

Yeah, yeah, I do that every day.

I need to be involved otherwise I’ll be unemployed. Right.

Oh actually.

On the sidelines and I hate being on the sidelines.

Yeah, yeah, right on. Is there one question that I haven't asked you that I should have asked you?

Matt, you are such a skilled interviewer. I knew you before you even reached out to ask me for an interview. I watched this podcast during my research. I came across your guy’s series. I just want to just give you guys kudos.

Well, thank you.

You’ve really educated the end users, with the research, and your diversity. We’re going to talk about marketing, we’re going to talk about SEO, we’re going to talk about PPC campaigns. So you definitely have enlightened the users. So yeah, thank you very much for what you’re doing.

Is there one big takeaway you want us to get from this? I think I know what it is.

The news story that’s compelling. End users are going to indulge in your website or your social channels.

Yeah. Whatever marketing channel, or medium you decide to use.

Any marketing channel you’re using.

Right on, It's been a pleasure having you here. How can our listeners connect with you online if they want to?

MedTechmomentum.com. I’ll even give out my email John@medtechmomentum.com.

Okay. And are you on LinkedIn or Twitter or anything like that?

Yes, of course on Twitter, and LinkedIn. I’m on all the social channels you need to reach me on.

Sure, I 'll make sure to put your links in the show notes. Anyway, John, pleasure having you here. Thank you so much for coming on and talking about this subject. It's been very enlightening and I really enjoyed it.

Matt, My pleasure.

Right on.

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